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In the first five months of this year, an astonishing 18,500 Mexicans have been murdered - with very few convictions. In the last five years 66 journalists have been murdered. Mexico is a failed state with corruption, no rule of law, and spin and lies all around - including in America. The speaker is American non-fiction writer Charles Bowden.
Kirsten Garrett: Today you'll hear some amazing figures and a startling take on what's happening in Mexico. And it's all a salutary lesson for many other governments and other places in the world where the rule of law is weak. As you'll hear, Mexico is now the most murderous country in the world. In five years, 66 journalists have been killed and 12 have disappeared. And in the first five months of this year, all together 18,500 murders have been committed.
Charles Bowden is a renowned and prize-winning non-fiction author and he's campaigned repeatedly for the American government to tell the truth about what the Mexicans are doing to each other and what America is doing to Mexico. Mexico is the largest Spanish-speaking, Catholic nation in the world. The war on drugs has failed, but, nevertheless, most murders have nothing to do with drugs but are an outcome of society with a weak legal system, an ineffectual government that makes money out of things as they are, and a corrupt police and military. There are hundreds of small, local gangs that make money however they can and kill each other and many women with impunity.
Charles Bowden: The reason you don't hear about it anymore is the death rate got so high, focussing on women no longer seemed to explain things for a lot of people. We had 3900 people slaughtered in a city of a million last year. Ten per cent were women, 90 per cent were men. Nobody's case gets solved. That's what happened.
But the issue still goes on. I mean, there are scholars who just specialise in what's called femicide, the murder of women, in Juarez. The problem I have simply is it's about the same percentage of women murdered anywhere in Mexico and in Mexico murders get committed but not solved.
Kirsten Garrett: This is Background Briefing and I'm Kirsten Garrett. Charles Bowden is talking at the Commonwealth Club of California. Today's talk explains that most Mexicans go to America not to sell drugs, but because they're afraid of being killed by their own people. Many are so poor, they don't have shoes. There are no severed heads on the border between America and Mexico, it's a beat-up, says Charles Bowden. He says he's sick of the lies authorities tell about Mexico and he's ashamed to see what's allowed to happen as US politicians spend $40 billion a year on drug enforcement and beat up the fear and deny what he says are the realities. Charles Bowden.
[Applause]
Charles Bowden: I want to tell you about some lies my country has taught me. That's really why I came up here. Look, it's 1958 and Ramon Miguel 'Mike' Vargas, a Mexican drug enforcement agent, tells his wife, 'Susie, one of the longest borders on earth is right here between your country and mine. An open border. Fourteen hundred miles without a single machine gun in place. Yeah, I suppose that all sounds corny to you.'
Ramon's a fake. He's actually an actor named Charlton Heston and Susie turns out to be Janet Leigh, two years before she had that bad shower day in Psycho. But still the point carries. In 1958, a B movie out of Hollywood thought nothing of stating that the border was safe and open. Of course Hollywood being Hollywood it had the length of the line off by about 500 miles.
Now flash forward to April this year. This time El Paso County judge Veronica Escobar is playing El Paso County judge Veronica Escobar and she's testifying before the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs in Washington DC. She says, 'While federal law enforcement has gone on record to praise the border wall, it is to me and others an example of considerable federal dollars being spent on a rusting monument that makes my community look like a junkyard... We are indeed on the frontlines and a safe border means a safe nation,' she said. 'But vilifying immigrants, building expensive, ugly walls, and encouraging hysteria and xenophobia only hurts our border communities, our commerce, and the economy of our nation.'
Senator John McCain, played as it happens by Senator John McCain, would have none of such talk. He said, 'I don't view ranchers who live in the southern part of my state, who had repeated home invasions, as xenophobic.' And he said he does not believe the US borders immune to being affected by Mexico's violence; there is no logic associated with that, he's noted. Well, yes, maybe there is no logic associated with that, but there's something backing up the argument that violence is not spilling north across the borders. For years, crime has been declining on this side all along the border. That's not an opinion but something even more thrilling than logic: damned facts.
Well, look, I think we're in a sorry state at this moment in this country. We're having real problems. I think we're being told lies and we argue, we use as evidence, the lies we're being told: US government lies, the Mexican government lies. But, you know, I give talks and I go on radio and pretty much every time somebody comes up after a talk, or somebody calls at the end of the radio show, and they're always Mexican Americans and they've always lost someone in the violence and they're always a breath of fresh air and they don't lie. They know that people are getting killed who are pretty much like themselves. They know that people who are getting killed are poor. They know the people getting killed are not big drug folks, but mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles and cousins. They know the people getting killed are blood kin. Often the people that come up to me have tears in their eyes.
I want to talk about the lies my country taught me so that we can also feel this pain and face the truth. This last December, the first snow was falling, I'm in Santa Fe, New Mexico. This girl leans forward; she says in a quiet voice that her uncle was a sicario, a killer for a drug organisation. But she says, 'He's dead now. He committed suicide.' The other people in the room fall silent. I'm in a public high school. Many of the students are here because of scholarships. All of them are here to learn the arts: dance, theatre, painting, sculpture, so forth. They're the gifted ones we have, the ones we bet on and hope will bring us some truth and beauty.
There are things now that cannot be said and if said cannot be heard. The girl who had an uncle who was a sicario, a contract killer, an uncle who finally killed himself out of despair, she can't be heard. What can be heard are shouts and the shouts feature tiny phrases: 'illegal immigration,' 'national security,' 'violence spilling across the border,' 'river of iron,' 'build a wall,' 'war on drugs,' 'war on terror,' 'Minutemen,' 'kidnappings,' ' beheadings.' You know, for a while I got used to everybody telling lies about the border. For several years I would visit with the Minutemen; couldn't take a stroll without muskets, infrared, this and that, the whole basic Rambo ensemble. But I've changed. I think I'm seeing the beginning of a race war and it's been started by my fellow citizens.
Now I want us to take a look at some basic lies, touted by US politicians and believed by many and seldom questioned by the US media.
Lie number one: Mexico is undergoing a cartel war. If so, it's a damned strange one, since it doesn't interfere with the delivery of drugs to the United States and it doesn't affect the price of drugs in the United States. In the past four years, according to the Mexican government about 40,000 Mexicans have been butchered. Human rights groups argue the number's well north of 40,000. Now, the Mexican government insists 90 per cent of these newly murdered Mexicans are criminals. The Mexican government reluctantly admits it has only examined at most five per cent of these murders. In last fall, the Mexican senate admitted that for years the Mexican government has been operating its own death squads. So we have dead people and to be honest we don't know if they were criminals or not. And we have a drug industry in Mexico that is not missing a shipment and there's no real increase in drug prices in the US, the big market.
Ciudad Juarez is the core of this killing. In three years it's had over 8000 people slaughtered, or maybe more. Here's a window into the unreality. Last year, the official tally of murders in Juarez was 3100 dead. This made the city possibly the most dangerous spot on the surface of the earth. But, hey, wait a minute. This spring the Mexican government revised this number and said actually 3900 people had been slaughtered in the city. That would give Juarez a murder rate of 300 per 100,000. New York City, our beloved Babylon, runs about six per 100,000. How can a tally miss 800 corpses? How can a government be trusted that can't even accurately count the dead it failed to protect?
But if this is a cartel war, somebody must explain why there's no effect on the drug industry. If this is a war by the Mexican government against cartels, somebody must explain why only poor nobodies seem to die. Also, if this is a cartel war I'd like some reporter to actually talk to some cartel people, to actually go visit these criminals. I'd like some reporter to take a break from repeating government propaganda. Yes, drug organisations fight each other. Yes, they've done this often in the past. But they never even remotely hit this level of violence. In the past four years, for example, the murder rate in Juarez has increase thirteenfold.
Lie number two: the Mexican army under Plan Merida is fighting the drug organisations. Here we enter a fantasyland that's essential for scholars and governments. It is that the drug industry in Mexico is organised, with a top and a bottom. It is that by killing people at the top we can topple the industry. I think last year 10 or 15 bosses were killed, some tracked to their bloody ends by US drones, our new favourite death toy. As I mentioned, this has had no effect on drug shipments to the United States. There is no surge in prices. There's no panic among consumers about having an adequate supply of drugs. So what's going on? Well, several things. One, Mexico's dependent on the earnings of the drug industry. US outfits like DEA peg the hard currency earnings of the drug industry at 30 to 50 billion a year from Mexico. Now, this tops remittances from Mexicans working illegally in the US; tops the bucks made off tourism; and it most likely tops Mexico's number one legal source of foreign currency: oil, a nationalised industry with dying oilfields that the president of Mexico says will be exhausted in ten years or less, and oilfields that also supply about 40 per cent of the federal budget in Mexico.
Given these facts, we have be on drugs to think Mexico's going to eliminate its drug industry. As for the Mexican army, it has had thousands of human rights violations since it joined the drug war. These violations are for little things, like rape, murder, extortion, kidnapping, robbery, and - oh yeah - torture. Our US State Department, in a report, made these charges. It has placed its people in charge of the army, in charge of various police departments around the country; it's coerced Mexican media and it has had no influence on the delivery of drugs in the US. So the best way to think about the Mexican army and its 191,000 members is that it's the largest single criminal organisation in the country. And beyond that it's bulletproof. In four and a half years of this war, with 40 or 50,000 dead Mexicans, the army, working on the frontlines, has officially lost 105 people. Good God, any decent army loses that many a year to cirrhosis!
[Laughter]
Let's see. Last year in Juarez, 3900 people died. In four and a half years, maybe 105 soldiers died. What kind of a war is this? Well, it's a war where the Mexican army claims it's killed 1566 bad guys, or about four per cent of the 40,000 Mexican dead. Let's just pause here a moment. The Mexican army fights Mexican drug organisations for almost five years and loses 105 soldiers, kills 1500 out of 40,000. I'll tell you what kind of a war this is - it's a war for drugs; for the power and the money in drugs. And it's been lost by the government of Mexico because of false assumptions, false assumptions shared by our government. You can kill a boss and it's got no effect on the business except that somebody gets a new job. You can bust up drug organisations and it really has no effect on the business, since the business operates quite well with smaller units. You can slaughter guys in the business; there's almost an endless supply of young guys eager to take up the work.
I have a friend who had a young woman come to him in Juarez for counselling. She was a sicaria, a contract killer. She'd cut the heads off I think of, I don't know, four or five people. She needed the work. He also has women come to him for counselling who are considering drug dealing in their neighbourhoods as a more moral choice than prostitution, since they must do something to feed their families. And my friend's a minister.
So you can't really wipe out the dreaded drug business, for three simple reasons: people need the jobs; the government needs the money; and in the end the police and soldiers all join the business. In one six year period over a hundred thousand members of the Mexican army deserted. US military intelligence assumes they left the army for the drug industry, because it pays a lot better for killing people.
Ah yeah, one more detail: our war on drugs. After 40 years of the US war on drugs, after spending a trillion dollars, after creating the largest per capita prison population on earth, drugs are more freely available than when this war began, cheaper in constant dollars, and generally of better quality. If we took these trends logically, we can see a future where the US is a police state studded with prisons, where the Mexicans are all dead and where drug prices are so low they are virtually free.
How did we arrive at this lunacy? Well, by seeing others in our own image. After 9/11, US government could not imagine that such an attack could take place without a state sponsor. Turns out this hell we all witnessed that morning was accomplished by a guy living in a cave, with the help of some pals. Al-Qaeda's more an idea than an organisation. It can be penetrated, people in it can be killed, like Osama bin Laden, but it cannot be easily wiped out, because the notion of using terror as a political tool spreads easily - the subways in London, that train in Madrid, and so forth.
I think we face the same blindness in the war on drugs. One, we're using cops to solve a public health problem. Two, we imagine drug organisations as kind of like automobile companies, where we bust the management, blow up a few factories, and we bring the devils to their knees. Well, we're wrong. There is no real centre in the drug industry. Many people can produce the stuff, many people can move the stuff, and the profit's so high that nothing stops people from leaping into the business.
So here's the deal. We're 40 years into a hopeless war that creates better and cheaper drugs, kills lots of Mexicans, imprisons lots of Americans, finances lots of cops, and solves nothing. Absolutely nothing.
I have a friend who spent 20 years undercover as a narc. He lost partners, he killed people, he damned near went crazy with the stress. When he started working in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex, heroin ran around $232,000 a kilo wholesale. When he turned in his badge a few years ago, heroin in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex ran around $72,000 a kilo wholesale and the purity had gone up to 94 per cent. He told me, 'Look at these numbers. That's what I accomplished in a lifetime of work.'
Well, let me return to my list of lies.
The wall. The wall's going to cost us $8-10 billion when the dust settles. And the bill will keep rising, because the nature of walls is this: they're never really finished, but keep getting improved over time. The wall will never solve poverty. Mexicans migrate north because of poverty. The wall will never stop drugs, because drugs will come north in trucks and the trucks will come through US ports of entry and the agents at those ports will be paid bribes. All this is already happening.
But the American people love the wall, because it's solid and they can point to it and say, 'Problem solved.' And American politicians love the wall, because they can point to it and say, 'Hey, I voted for that. Problem solved.' At the moment, every indicator suggests the migration of the Mexican poor has stalled, but the war has little to do with it. The remedy turns out to be the collapse of the American economy. But this breather will not last. Mexico is suffering more than the US in the collapse. Inevitably, wall or no wall, people are going to resume the march north.
But here's the point I want to make. The wall's not about national security. The 20,000 armed agents we now have on the Mexican border are not about national security. Terrorists sensibly arrive in the US at airports, with nice documents. The people crossing the Rio Grande, risking their lives in the deserts of the southwest, are not terrorists; they're poor people. The wall is part of our war on the poor.
Now I come to one of my very favourite lies. I'm getting to be a gourmet on this stuff, you know. I used to be a gourmet on... Violence spilling across the border. This was the favourite theme of Senator John McCain in his re-election campaign last fall. You know, Senator [Jan] Brewer of Arizona... McCain said famously, 'Build the dang wall.' If you really care about the security of this country, get very worried when we're producing sailors that say 'dang.'
[Laughter]
He also said violence was spilling north over the border and insisted the National Guard troops be sent to the line. Governor Brewer complained of severed heads littering the Arizona desert. Well, let's calmly review the facts. I realise fear seems to be the political drug of choice. Well, let's try an old-fashioned thing: facts. For the past decade, all along the Mexican border on the US side, crime has been declining year by year. El Paso, Texas, facing Juarez, had five murders in 2010 and was rated variously the safest city in the US or the second safest. Nogales, Arizona, just had its first murder in three years. An ex-cop murdered his estranged wife. Now as for the severed heads, there's not been a single one found in the Arizona desert. There is no reason for Senator McCain to demand National Guard troops on the border because of this case. But that's what he did. There's no reason for the senator and the governor to claim violence is spilling across the border. But they both did.
I could be kind - I have a soft streak in me - and assume they're mentally impaired. But I think they're deliberately lying in order to get votes and I think this kind of lying can lead to a race war. And I'm a little sensitive on this subject. I spend about a half a year, half of each year, on the Arizona border in an isolated house. It's about 20 miles to the line from the house and there's nothing between me and the line but some mountains, grassland, a few isolated ranches. I hardly lock the doors.
There are times I can hear trucks of drugs moving down the dirt road in the night. Once in a while I see guys backpacking drugs and they're all neatly dressed in black. I don't think there's been a murder in the area in 20 years. The area has stash houses. There's been a few incidents in the past years. About a year or so ago they did a big drug bust in a nearby town. They nailed 20-odd people and announced they'd wiped out a major pot ring. The kingpin was driving a 1987 car. Such is the violence on this side of the border.
Now here's another one: the river of iron.
Kirsten Garrett: 'The river of iron' is a phrase used in America to talk about the arms trade going on from America to Mexico, and at this point in his talk Charles Bowden says it's rubbish. The figures are inexact and they're not explicit and the Mexican gangs and drug dealers make billions anyway; they have rocket launchers and grenades and AK-47s and they use them to kill each other. They don't need guns from America. He also said desertion from the Mexican army is on a grand scale and the soldiers take their guns with them. These may be made in America. Don't believe in the river of iron, it's another lie. Charles Bowden asks why there are so many lies.
Charles Bowden: I think all these lies exist for a few simple reasons. One, we all seem to like the lies. 'Cos they don't cost us anything: we can be against guns; we can say that drugs are bad; we can toss money to the Mexican army; finance the US police state; and go on our merry way. What the hell - we can build a wall, too. We can do anything but look at the real facts on the ground. What we find is growing poverty in Mexico, growing violence, and the expanse of police and military powers; the flight of the affluent - an estimated 30-60,000 rich Mexicans have crossed the bridge and moved from Juarez to El Paso in the last three years, for example.
And now there are colonies of illegal refugees, people who didn't come here for economic reasons; they came here out of fear of being murdered. Since political asylum is difficult and close to impossible for Mexicans to achieve, they blend into border areas. In Las Cruces, New Mexico, for example, the local community college grew 77 per cent in a year and 99 per cent of the growth was English as a second language. This is an underground community beneath the notice or compassion of the US government. Meanwhile, back in Juarez, 27 per cent of the houses have been abandoned; 40 per cent of the retail businesses have closed; an estimated 10,000 orphans have been created; 100,000 dogs have been abandoned; and now well over 8000 people murdered in three years.
And we talk about violence spilling across the border and we talk of the need for a wall and we talk of the border as a national security issue. What we seem to skip over is that at our doorstep the largest human rights crisis in the western hemisphere is happening right in front of our lying eyes. I'll make it simple. The primary force between the migration of the Mexicans north is a failure of the Mexican economy. In Juarez, for example, about half the teenage kids are neither in school nor have jobs. Every year or so a think tank or government agency seems to spew out numbers stating Mexico is booming. You have to wonder why nobody tells the Mexican people this wonderful fact, since at least ten per cent of their population's out living here illegally.
NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement, destroyed light industry and peasant agriculture and triggered what is probably the largest human migration on earth. Now NAFTA was endorsed by both political parties, passed during President Clinton's first term, and it was sold as a solution to illegal Mexican migration and to Mexican poverty. It is an absolute failure. It has cost US workers an estimated 200,000 to 700,000 jobs. It has created huge warrens of poverty on the border, where Mexicans work in US factories for slave wages. It has in Juarez created a generation of children raised without parents because their mothers and fathers slave in these factories. There are now an estimated 900 street gangs in Juarez as a result. NAFTA must be renegotiated so that it neither destroys American jobs nor destroys Mexican families. It must guarantee the right of labour to organise and guarantee workplaces that are not toxic. Now this isn't too damned hard. We manage to build factories all over this country that meet that standard.
Next, stop giving money to the Mexican army. We give them about $500 million a year, so they can kill Mexicans. Stop seeing a military solution to an economic problem. Legalise drugs. The war on drugs is a failure that kills Mexicans, imprisons Americans, gives tens of millions of dollars per year to murderous scum, terrorises drug users, and creates a police state. Albert Einstein once said that insanity meant doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. He must have been thinking of our war on drugs.
OK. A short review. NAFTA's a failure. The war on drugs is a failure. The migration north of Mexicans is driven by poverty and big walls don't answer that fact. Nobody is coming here to blow up our lives. Violence is not spilling north. The river of iron, the fact that some killers in Mexico use US guns, is a sideshow and so far has little or no factual basis. Now it's time to stop lying, because these lies kill people. If you want the world to get worse, if you want more death, more migration, more violence, well, continue to support these policies. Both governments will applaud you as you join their dance of death. If you say build the wall higher, give more guns to the Mexican army, hire more police to bust drug addicts, jail Mexicans who come here to work illegally. Hell, you might even get elected to congress.
I was born in 1945. I was born into a country that believed in the future and wasn't afraid. When I've raised these issues before, I've been told that my answers are simple. Well, fine. So's the Sermon on the Mount. We can't fix Mexico, only Mexicans can. We can certainly stop doing things to make it worse.
Thank you.
[Applause]
Kirsten Garrett: This is Background Briefing, on ABC Radio National. Speaking is author Charles Bowden. Now, at the Commonwealth Club of California, there were questions from the floor.
Woman 1: What do you see as the main reason that so many Mexicans are being killed - poor people, as you say - by their own police and soldiers?
Charles Bowden: I can't give you an exact answer. I'll give you some things that are going on. 'Social cleansing', a term you may have heard in other countries, like Latin America. Some of the people getting killed, people in drug clinics, et cetera, are just being massacred by the government because the Mexican army thinks that Mexico would be better without them.
Secondly, some of it's actual killing by drug organisations. Now, I'll give you a very quick piece of history: 2007 was the most violent year in the history of Juarez, a city about 350 years old: 310, 320 people were killed. Suddenly it went to 1600 and then 2700 and then 3900 killings a year. That can't be explained by conflicts in the drug industry. Look, these bastards been killing each other since the beginning of time. It's a business not a recreation. Something else is happening. I think it's the breakdown of a society. I think after decades of mismanagement, growing poverty, et cetera, things explode. A lot of the people getting killed are failing to pay extortion. You have a tamale cart, you didn't meet your 30 bucks that week, or 20, whatever, 10, whatever it is, and they kill you. And you're being killed by gangs. Look here, there's no big drug guy up saying, 'Go ahead, kill that guy with the tamale cart. He didn't pay me a couple of bucks this week.' This is just people killing each other 'cos there's nothing there anymore; in other words, a breakdown.
But the only way you can explain each murder is to look at each murder. And here's the problem; none are investigated. There are no known facts... except the corpse.
Man 1: How much violence on this side of the border is connected to drug cartels on that side, with the distribution...
Charles Bowden: Good question.
Man 1: ...and gang activity.
Charles Bowden: Yeah. Some of the violence on this side is connected to the other side, but it doesn't really happen here. For years, like in El Paso, if you failed to pay for a drug load, somebody comes to your house, puts you in a trunk, and you get a free trip to Juarez, usually don't come back. Now, that's always gone on. It's gone on in, like, Phoenix, Tucson; all these communities have home invasions; that's part of what's going on. But if that were counted, it would not significantly increase the rate of violence on this side. It is simply a misconception that violence is spilling across the border north.
It is spilling south. We're giving half a billion dollars a year to the Mexican army, for example, and they're killing people. We have a prohibition against drugs; that's killing people. Look, I get a little tired of American politicians saying somebody in the city rolling a joint is murdering a Mexican. Frankly, they don't even know where Mexico is. You might as well say somebody having a beer in Chicago in '25 was trying to kill people when he just got out of the stockyards and wanted a beer. This is nonsense. What's killing people is this absurd prohibition on drugs. It's 40 years into the game, it's a total failure and we ought to admit it. Look, you don't have to be in favour of drugs, any more than you have to drink Coca Cola. This just isn't working.
Man 2: Can you discuss the increase in violence since the militarisation of the attempt to stop the drug traffic in Mexico? I mean the advent of the Zetas and the hyper-violence that we see now; the beheadings and whatnot. I mean, that didn't go on ten years ago.
Charles Bowden: Two points, yeah. Wherever the army goes, more dead people show up. The Zetas originally were an anti-drug organisation group, created in the mid-90s, financed in part by the US. I have a friend, former DEA, who used to be their paymaster. But they looked at the pay scale and went south on us, you know, and joined the Gulf Cartel. They're a paramilitary group, some of them were trained in the US - think of a bunch of Rambos. And they kill people. But you don't know who they kill. What I'm saying is every time a bird falls out of the sky now, the Mexican government says it's the Zetas. It's kind of like John Dillinger in the 30s. He could rob banks the same day in seven states.
There are lots of gangs killing people. I'm not belittling these guys; in fact, this autobiography of the sicario that I worked on with Molly Molloy - it's really her book - what he told us, the sicario, was that he's impressed with the Zetas. He brushed up against them in his work, murdering people. He said only a Zeta can kill a Zeta. So they're good.
But the violence is too widespread. I mean, a retired Mexican general floated a trial balloon a couple of weeks ago in the leading magazine in Mexico and said, 'Well, look, 40 per cent of the country's been lost to drug organisations.' The trial balloon was do you have to let the army cordon off section by section? Go in and cleanse it? Well, I know what that means if you don't; I'm half German.
Man 3: Given the theme you set up about heading south in terms of the violence, it seems like a popular theme lately in the media is to talk about the growing violence in Guatemala, in Central America...
Charles Bowden: Oh yes.
Man 3: So can you put that into the context of what's going on...
Charles Bowden: Oh yeah. I don't know if I can put it into context. Look, Central America's turning into a bloodbath - grenades sell for $6.50 a piece in the markets of Guatemala, leftovers from our dirty little wars; they have more grenades than they know what to do with. But there's an excellent book I didn't write, naturally, called Gomorrah, by Roberto Saviano. It's about Naples. What he sees and what I think I'm seeing, thanks in part to him - he's a kid in his late 20s - about the Camorra, the mafia of Naples is there's getting an international sort of industry of crime that is the economy that has no centre, that really has no capos, and that it's the economy of the future. And I really recommend the book to you. I think I'm seeing that in Mexico, Central America. I am not an expert, but it's the only way I can explain it.
The myth of Mexico now as shared by both governments and a lot of the Mexican people is two or three capos can go in a room, get sober, and stop the violence. I think we're way past that. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.
Woman 2: The dialogue about legalising drugs has been going on for quite some time, and there have been some prominent political leaders who have made noises about this and come out openly, including a former California gubernatorial candidate last year who never got out of the Republican primary and a former secretary of state, George Shultz. And I was actually here at the Commonwealth Club about 15 years ago where I heard him say that. Where is that dialogue now? Is there any leader taking the helm for that?
Charles Bowden: Look, I find it hard to explain how I now live in a country where people in both parties will stand up for gay marriage and there isn't a politician in this country that will stand up for marijuana even. Paul Volcker says this policy is bad, you know, in this recent report. It's hardly like it's a bunch of crazy people. But I think it has to come. I mean, we can't afford this war any more than we can afford the war in Afghanistan. We are spending 30, 40 billion a year. In the last year of the Clinton administration we were spending about 40 billion a year on narcotics enforcement. This cannot go on. It's just like I read this morning - one of those little windows of lucidity having coffee - that we're dropping 20 billion a year in Afghanistan and Iraq on air conditioning. Jesus, I wish I took drugs, you know; I could comprehend that.
So, look, I'm not trying to put you off. I will say this, somebody has to stand up. They can't say decriminalise. Decriminalise is nice but doesn't do anything. It means you get to buy drugs but criminals get to sell them, meaning the black market still exists, you're still giving the same amount of money to killers and, you know, it isn't going to work. It didn't work with prohibition. The only way you retired Al Capone was legalising booze. Now, booze isn't good for you - although it's nice - but that was the only way out. That's why I personally don't think you can do it unless you legalise everything.
We have to do what we did with alcohol. We know alcohol's destructive, we know it's violent. I used to be a crime reporter. When you look at the police blotter on Sunday morning, you're not looking at a bunch of crimes committed because the old man had a joint and beat up his wife. It's all booze and we all know it, but we've created a system where people can get drunk but they can't scare the horses, increasingly can't drive a car. I mean, I love it. You see a bunch of alcoholics riding round the cities now on old bicycles; the new green generation. We're going to have to do the same thing with drugs, because I don't see any other choice. This is at most a public health issue. We're the public. Cops aren't good at that.
One of the reasons I'm against sending the National Guard to the borders - not that I'm against the National Guard - I think every American has the right to go camping - is that they're not trained in police work; they're trained to eliminate targets. You're sending the wrong group. We're sending the wrong group to solve drug addiction by sending policemen. That's the best I can do. I know it isn't good enough, but hell I'm only human.
Man 4: A number of years ago there were quite a few women that they were finding their bodies along the border. I believe it was around Juarez and they were working. But since this drug thing I don't read anything about it anymore and I don't know what really ever happened. I just wondered if you knew.
Charles Bowden: I can tell you what happened. The reason you don't hear about it anymore is the death rate got so high, focussing on women no longer seemed to explain things for a lot of people. Now, we had 3900 people slaughtered in a city of a million last year, or 1,200,000. Ten per cent were women, 90 per cent were men. Nobody's case gets solved. That's what happened.
But the issue still goes on. I mean, there are scholars who just specialise in what's called femicide, the murder of women, in Juarez. The problem I have simply is it's about the same percentage of women murdered anywhere in Mexico and in Mexico murders get committed but not solved.
There's an excellent movie made by two Mexican citizens who got PhDs at Berkeley, called Presumed Guilty. It came out about two years ago; it's a documentary. I cannot recommend it highly enough. You'll never have another question about the Mexican justice system; you'll never use the word justice, either. It's splendid. They're both attorneys, Mexican citizens, and it's revelatory. PBS has shown it once.
Woman 3: It's so funny that you just mentioned the documentary because I'm actually going to Mexico City in a couple of weeks for the Merida Initiative. And so I was curious what your opinion was of the Merida Initiative, which is basically to strengthen their justice system and to help them transition from inquisitorial to more adversarial. And I wanted to know, was this another one of your myths. Would you, like, add this to the list of myths? Or do you think this could have a positive effect on Mexico?
Charles Bowden: I don't know how to answer that. Partly it's above my pay grade; partly Mexicans have to fix Mexico; partly this system has to be broken, I think almost, to be fixed down there. Look, I don't have a solution. The only thing I know, as an American, is I don't want my government making it worse. It's just like there are many Americans that used to sort of wonder why we were propping up somebody like General Franco. Well, that's the way I feel now; that our policies are hurting the Mexican people and in the end it hurts us and they're not helping us.
Look, it's no benefit to me or anybody in this room if you have somebody working in the Electrolux factory, for example in Juarez, on a wage that's not a living wage, you know. That doesn't help us any more than it helped to move the factory there. There's an excellent book called, I think, Mollie's Job, by William Adler, where he tracks a job from New Jersey to the woman who gets it in Mexico. And the woman who lost it in New Jersey's life is destroyed. She happens to be African American. And the woman in Matamoros who gets it - a Mexican - her life is slavery and destroyed. That's the point I want to bring up; that these initiatives, you know, like Javier Sicilia's Caravan Against Violence, that's for Mexicans to decide. And I'm a little sceptical, but I can't speak against somebody being against violence, because I'm against violence.
But, I'll tell you the truth, if I ran the world (that's next time I come here and speak, I'll be God). Look, I think this country can only sustain 100, 120 million people. I think we're overpopulated. I think we're beyond carrying capacity. I think we're destroying the earth. But I wasn't raised to take that fact and tell a Mexican man, woman and child to go die in a ditch. That's my problem. My problem's my damned mother, you know, she taught me this stuff.
Man 5: One of the things that struck me over the last several years is how quiet the Catholic Church in Mexico has been about what's happening. Is that your impression, or is that just a distortion...
Charles Bowden: Yes, I mean, look, that's a long issue because of the historic conflict between the government and the church. And now they have a rapprochement. The PAN Party that's running Mexico is catholic. The current president, Felipe Calderon, is devoutly Catholic. And so, yes, they've been silent in my opinion. Not completely. I mean, there have been bishops that have spoken out -but there hasn't been a slaughter like this of Mexicans since the Mexican revolution. This is not some sideshow. Your government's trying to tell you, 'Well, it's just drug guys killing each other.' Well, actually I want Hillary Clinton, I want President Obama to go to the goddamn morgue and tell me which one of those corpses is a drug person; these thousands of poor people, don't even have shoes. I'm a little tired of listening to that kind of crap.
OK, well thank you.
[Applause]
Kirsten Garrett: That was prize-winning author and campaigner Charles Bowden speaking at the Commonwealth Club of California recently. And there'll be a link to his biographical details on the Background Briefing website. I'm Kirsten Garrett. This is ABC Radio National.
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